A Green Way to Get Rid of the Ice in the Church Parking Lot?

Salt is not environmentally friendly. But we have a problem with the parking lot in current weather conditions. Is anyone looking into a solution? I've looked online and have found a few interesting products and also research on the subject. In Vermont, there was once research going on with cheese whey to create an environmentally safe ice-melting product. I don't know what happened with that.

There are products that claim to be pet, child, and environmentally safe. But are they really? Info on things like this would be very beneficial to the 1,300 attendees of this congregation, I think. Anyone know of a good article, or source of information, that can be shared here?

What can we do at the church? We are all committed to being green in every way possible. But the ice in the lot makes me wonder if we are working to find solutions (that may already exist ) so that we can stay green but make it safe for everyone to attend church.

Let's use this discussion board to learn more about this and possibly do something about it. It would be a shame if ice keeps people away from Chalice Theatre's production of Once on This Island, Rev. Michael's return, Sunday worship, et al.......

Does being green automatically mean its consequences and impact on daily living are less significant than the impact on the planet?

Thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by Sue Browning on February 17, 2010 at 5:54pm

Would it make any sense to have a 'shovel fest' Friday or Saturday ? ... bring your own shovel, ice "chopper" tool and thermos of coffee and expand the usable space by moving some ice and snow to wherever Bill Peters/Dave Winters want it moved (caveat Bill-- the location needs to be on church grounds!).

I know it is packed down and would be tough work, but I did see the Baptist Church near me make progress today using a like technique (plus a bobcat...) And some melting agent wouldn't hurt!

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Permalink Reply by June Herold on February 17, 2010 at 6:16pm

Okay this is a great idea...the best green idea we could have right now. Thanks so for pointing out the obvious. I cannot make it Sat. morning because of elder care. But I could put in several hours Friday afternoon. I can also do Sat. Afternoon. june

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Permalink Reply by John L. Bohman on February 18, 2010 at 8:13am

I am reluctant to weigh in on this with my personal challenges, but the primary concern here needs to be safety, especially the safety of the elderly and the disabled. I am at the Church many evenings, and the ice has been a real challenge for many of us since it started in December. About six weeks ago, an elderly choir member feel on the black ice that has regularly appeared after sunset on the paved area just before the ramp. Fortunately, he did not break anything, but he hit his face, and it was pretty bloody.

Last night, I just managed to stop a personal fall on some ice about 100 feet away from the ramp. I have Parkinsons Disease, but I have not yet developed the major balance problems that are part of that disease. Last night, I would have been on the ground if I had not caught my balance at the last second.

Grit products, like sand, help some, but products that melt solve the problem. I favor using those products on the ramp and on at least parts of the parking lot. I do not think it is realistic to expect volunteers to sweep our gravel lot clear every time ice becomes a possibility. We heat our houses at the expense of the environment, and I do not see the use of some salt once in awhile as all that different.

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Permalink Reply by Cynthia Adcock on February 19, 2010 at 12:04pm

Dear June, Sue, John, et al.--Thanks for your caring and thinking clearly. I myself am very aware of how much I needed church when it was cancelled due to snow--I needed to be in a place, a community, where people care about each other's well-being. And act on the caring. I do think that there are solutions of various kinds that we could adopt for making sure church is open, accessible, to all. Part of that is the salt-sand issue and the ploughing (or packing down) snow so it is a manageable surface. Part might be having systems in place for mutual assistance when attendance is threatened--transport partnerships, or neighborhood-based support groups. I suspect that many of us at UUCA are more used to being self-sufficient in tough conditions, than we are used to needing support. But as my dad, the minister, as he was entering his Alzheimer's phase, said: "We are all only temporarily able." Getting into that mindset might help us build community.

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Permalink Reply by William Peters on February 19, 2010 at 3:40pm

Thanks to all who join us in dealing with these weather related problems.
We welcome your ideas and energy.

The ramp is clear and should remain ice-free until there is more of the wretched wintry mix.
We have cleared the sidewalks along the driveway as well as on the Route 50 service road and George Mason (that's a really long way around the building).

We are using sand and an ice-melt (a brand which is supposed to be less harmful than others) on the parking lot. For those of us who have been slipping every morning, afternoon and evening we can tell that the ice rinks are getting smaller. Unfortunately as the days warm up the snow piles melt and wash the gritty stuff away. Then we're left with wet pavement which freezes at night leaving the dreaded "black ice."

We will continue to grit it up daily. We will also be leaving buckets of sand for anyone to spread at night when folks are trying to get to their cars.

There really aren't any good solutions to moving the snow banks. (It occurred to me that we could rent a bob-cat (if any were available) and load up the trunks of people's cars and they can take the snow home for re-cycling.)
Manually moving some of the blocks would give us a few more spaces but will really not make much difference in the evening formation of the black ice.

Harnessing the hot air from our meetings was also suggested and will be sent to a task force for further discussion. lol

May the gods and goddesses smile warmly on us, and nature will take away the beautiful snow it brought.

bill peters
Administrator

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Permalink Reply by June Herold on February 19, 2010 at 7:39pm

Tx Bill. Glad to know that sand will be available at arms length for the church grounds. One thing I've forgotten to mention is the situation across the street in the Mason's parking lot. Last Sunday, yours truly -- along with four other cars -- unwittingly blocked the exit of half the cars parked there. I had no idea I was doing that because I parked in a space that was clearly a parking spot. What I didn't notice was that one of two exits out of the lot was obstructed by very large piles of plowed snow. In order to maneuver to get out, egress was needed at the far end of the lot. That's where one of the blockage points occurred.

I think if we lived with this kind of weather regularly we'd all develop muscle memory to scan these kinds of situations to to look for potential traffic problems. Rev. Linda announced at the end of one of the services the plate numbers that were the offenders. I ran out immediately, and was one of two people who got there first. I tried to get out, but ironically I was blocked. Oy vay, right?

The situation eventually worked itself out. I think many folks assumed that those of use who blocked the way out knew what we were doing when we did it. But I'm pretty sure we didn't have a clue. So a lesson was learned, at least for me, to look around, even if my spot is truly intended for parking.

I think we naturally think only of the church grounds and the sidewalks adjacent to it. But given we also depend on the Mason's lot. I think it would be a good idea to report on the access/parking availability there. I never would have thought to ask about this had I not blocked other people from getting out of the one exit.

The consequences of the blizzards are interesting, to say the least!

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Permalink Reply by Sue Browning on February 19, 2010 at 6:02pm

Thanks Bill for the update. Buried in this mess are opportunities for connection. When in the parking lot I'm hoping those that are more sure footed on the snow and ice will offer an arm to others (yes, to folks you don't know, or don't know well!) -- and as you walk together, say hi, and introduce yourselves!